This episode is an interview with Frank Buschmann, one of the pioneers of the pattern movement in Europe. Michael and Frank discuss how it all began: the first conferences on patterns and the first publications by the Gang-of-Four and the POSA 1 team. Frank then elaborates on the new volumes in the Pattern-Oriented Software Architecture book series - POSA 4 and POSA 5 - and gives some examples from the books. The episode concludes with a general discussion on software design and architecture, and best practices on software development.